Transcript - Episode 2: Coronavirus

Esmé The more you learn, the more you realise there is still to learn.

Kim This is Sparking Connections, a podcast where two education enthusiasts teach each other about their respective fields of study. My name is Kimberley Wardle, and I'm a final year microbiology student at the University of Surrey

Esmé And my name is Esmé Beaumont and I have a literature degree from the University of Liverpool.

Kim Hello, everybody.

Esmé Hello

Kim Welcome back. This is Sparking Connections as you heard and this week we are talking about Coronavirus. How exciting. So, I am taking the lead on this episode. Obviously, this is a science episode. So like Esmé did last week or two weeks ago. I'm going to tell you a little bit about what I've got going on.

Kim So I'm at the University of Surrey studying microbiology. But, I'm interested in viruses and epidemiology, which is the spread of disease in populations. And I'm hoping to graduate in July. All looks good for that, hopefully. So we'll see. And the reason I got into microbiology was because I used to read a lot of zombie novels. I still try and read a lot of zombie novels, although I've read them all. So, you know, if there's any recommendations, let me know. And the way that outbreaks were described really caught my attention, or there were like, factors that came into account and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, so zombie novels is what got me into microbiology. And I've also started trying to promote more science communication, and I'm trying to do a bit more related to science communication. So making the general public more aware of what higher education topics there are and how to make them more accessible and things like that. And my website, which this podcast is part posted on I guess, and as mentioned at the end, as well, that's kind of going on, like my online business card, and Esmé's information is also on there, so if you want to hunt them out you can do that too.

Kim And then full disclosure, we've already recorded this episode once, but I was so what's the word? I guess picky. The information was out of date. So because we recorded at the end of January, and science moves very quickly. So we're re-recording and we're doing this in two separate locations. So give us feedback on how it sounds cause we're not sure yet. But yeah, so Esmé are you ready to dive deep into the Coronavirus outbreak again?

Esmé I am indeed.

Kim Okay. So, as of February 11th, the coronavirus which was known as novel coronavirus, 2019 was renamed Covid 19. So, that's its new official name by the WHO which is the World Health Organisation the big people who know what's going on with health in the world. So we originally picked up on this story on the 20th of January. And that story will be in the show notes. But it goes on to talk about how the virus was spread and why that's significant, because obviously modern air travel, all sorts of other ways to transmit viruses than they used to be, are now obvious. And this is a zoonotic virus, so animals to humans and then human to human. So, an animal doesn't just pass it to humans, and then it stops. It can also then be transmitted human to human and then back to animals, which obviously makes it a bit scary, but, you know, how often are you likely to interact with an animal that is infected? In the UK, not very, but in other countries, your interactions could be much more frequent, which is what they suspect happened for coronavirus this particular outbreak occurred with the virus likely we suspect it came from civets, which are like, cat like creatures, or I think there was bats crossed with another genome or another animal that then went into humans so they're not sure who that link is. The link could be snakes or it could be something else but either way it's travelled from animals to humans. So Esmé

Esmé Yes ‘

Kim Do you know the symptoms the key symptoms to look out for for coronavirus?

Esmé See I thought I did and having been put on the spot my mind has gone blank. Is it is it not flu like symptoms? Coughing and sneezing and such?

Kim Yes. Yeah. So it's important to remember that it is sort of eespiratory systems, systems, symptoms respiratory symptoms. So coughing Yes, sneezing, yes. shortness of breath. But it's also very important to recognise that it is not things like a runny nose. Okay, because that is one of the distinguishers between just the normal flu or normal cold and coronavirus. So it is important to note that because in my university of all places, one of the symptoms on the posters that they've put up is a runny nose. And I'm Like - what, that is misinformation

Esmé They should know better

Kim I know! I was just very confused about why they thought that that was a good idea because it's cold season you know, we're back at uni. Everybody's getting sick off somebody.

Esmé Yeah, Fresher's Flu.

Kim Exactly. So why would you put runny nose when it's not an indicat- like an indicative symptom? Anyway, So yes, you're right. It's flu like symptoms, fever, coughing, shortness of breath, that kind of stuff. In very severe cases it can turn into things like pneumonia, respiratory syndrome, acute respiratory syndrome and also kidney failure. So, the implications of having coronavirus are obviously very, very severe, but it's not as dangerous to people that aren't at risk, if that makes sense. So we should all be careful, we should always be careful. But the people at risk are the really young (kids), really old and people that are immunocompromised. So people that have underlying conditions that mean that they are more susceptible. So, people with asthma for example, because this is a respiratory problem. They're all the people that should be careful. But if you get the right treatment, so, well, you don't get cured or treated, you get like support in hospitals with oxygen and things like that. Then it can stop other underlying comorbidities that can occur as a result of being infected. So really, it's quite manageable. But how would you, this is another question for you: How would you say from the news? How would you say how severe this outbreak is? What would you say about it?

Esmé Everyone's kind of freaking out a bit. So if it wasn't for the fact that you have sounded very calm, I would have assumed that it was terrible and life threatening and that we were all going to die based on what I've seen. Sort of on the news, and not just on the news but on social media and just people I know. In general -

Kim Yeah.

Esmé - People freaking out quite a lot. I've seen things from my old University, sort of people saying people getting [sigh] people making comments about the high number of Chinese international students, for example, people seem genuinely scared. And sort of, I've seen people sort of saying, you know, we should do X, Y and Z slightly paranoid measure, because I just want to survive to graduate. So I sort of get the impression that it's really bad, but you sound calm, so I take it, I take it. That's not quite true.

Kim Yeah, well, I mean, I try and be very calm about these situations anyway, so maybe this is like a false calm, but from the research that I've been doing, and obviously because I'm a scientist, I like to keep up with this kind of stuff. And also, I've been taking a module, this semester on epidemiology, and obviously it's come up, and we've talked about the various ins and outs of coronavirus. So what you have to remember is when they talk about things like the number of deaths, it's really sad, but they need to be put in context of the number of cases. So, I'm going to throw some numbers at you. I apologise. I know that numbers aren't your jam, but as of the 23rd of February, which is yesterday. Yeah, yesterday. The number of global cases is 78,811.

Esmé That's a lot. Okay.

Kim Yeah. So in the 24 hour period between the 22nd and the 23rd, there were over 1000 new cases. And so just bear that in mind so nearly 79,000 cases in the world. So this includes 29 different countries, including China. So China has 77,000 cases.

Esmé Okay.

Kim So they've got the majority of the cases. And of those 77,042 cases that have only been 2445 deaths. So I say only because that's 3% of the cases have resulted in death. 3%

Esmé That's still a lot of people but considering how many people have it -

Kim Exactly

Esmé - your chances of survival are very, very, very high.

Kim Exactly. And you know, if you are sick, you go to the hospital, you get that support. Well, there are there are precursors steps to, to actually, just don't turn up at the don't just turn up at a hospital because if you are sick, you could infect other sick people. But yes, there are measures in place where you can get help for, you know, for your infection and and this is in in China specifically, in the rest of the world, there have only been 17 deaths. And if you follow the maths, that's 17 deaths out of a total of 1769 cases. That's less than 1%. So in, in the world, if you are in a place of good health care, so the US, Europe, majority of Europe, the UK in many, many cases, you can get the support that you need to survive Coronavirus. So this is why I'm calm. Okay, we we know what's going on. This outbreak isn't new. There are measures in place to keep us all protected. So yeah, 0.96% specifically. Is your likelihood of death.

Esmé When you said there's no treatment but all of these people survive? Why is that? Why is it that we can have a disease that while clearly not as terrifying, as popular discussion has made it out to be it's still serious, you know, that is still a large number of people who have died.

Kim Yes

Esmé Even if it is only a small proportion. Why is it that a disease so serious doesn't have a cure, but isn't killing more people?

Kim Right. So that's a really good question. And it's, it's due to the fact that this disease is called something that is self limiting. So your body is able to fight off this disease. Obviously, a virus’ main aim, if viruses even have aims, is to infect new people, infect new hosts. Because the virus can't survive on its own, it won't, it won't survive very long on its own, I mean, very long evolutionarily. So Coronavirus, for example, can survive up to seven weeks on a surface, which is actually a really long time for a virus because usually they dry out, then they're done for. But in the grand scheme of things, you know, in a lifetime's worth of existence, seven weeks isn't very long to survive outside of a host. So the whole point of the viruses is that it's trying to infect new people and it's trying to survive, just as is. But our immune system, the crazy, intelligent thing that it is inside of us that we don't have any control over, has the ability to take on that virus and get rid of it. So our symptoms are often as a result of our body fighting an infection. So fever, for example is as a result of various toxins or in the most sensible way, good toxins that our body releases to let the rest of our body know that something's going on, increases our temperature makes our enzymes work better and makes our body a less hospitable environment for the virus.

Esmé Right.

Kim So all the symptoms that we we see are usually a downstream effect of whatever battle is going on with our immune system and the virus. So when it's self limiting, it means that the virus is ultimately I don't like the word defeated, but it's the word that comes to mind. The virus is ultimately defeated by our immune system, and we can recover with little to no effect. Now, coronavirus may not be totally self limiting just because it can leave some some damage potentially if you don't, you know, go to the hospital and get support. But if you go to the hospital, they're not going to give you any medicines unless it's to prevent other diseases. They're not going to give you a vaccine, they're not going to give you anything that can actually kill the coronavirus and that's because there is no cure, there's no vaccine, there's no treatment. They just give you oxygen which supports your lungs when you have pneumonia, obviously, you need to be able to oxygenate your body and if your immune system, your body, is is compromised by the virus, then it might not be oxygenating correctly. And that's all they'll really do. They'll make sure you're you know, getting various nutrients and staying hydrated and just it's just support basically, because the virus will be resolved by your body So that's how you can survive, but not be treated. So, the deaths are usually a result of someone that is immunocompromised that didn't get the support they needed. Like I said, the very young, the very old people who have other underlying conditions, that means that they were, you know, their immune system isn't able to fight properly.

Esmé Yeah.

Kim Because one of my favourite facts is that your immune system is at its very best, and the best it'll ever be at the age of five. Yes, that's right you peaked at five.

Esmé So why is that?

Kim I think it's something to do with how well your body makes immune cells and how much energy you have to put towards making immune cells. So obviously, you've got a small body, so you're able to make a lot of immune cells. And then also at that age, you're getting exposed to a lot of new things. You know, you're eating dirt.

Esmé you're putting stuff in your mouth that you shouldn't

Kim Yeah, it's gross, and like transferring fluids with other small organisms, I don't know, it's just gross, being a child is gross. So it's beneficial that your immune system works as well as it as it does when you're that age. But then obviously, as you age, your body slows down, your body decreases its ability to make a immune cells and as you know, any ageing, you know, you lose the ability to make collagen, which gives you wrinkles, all that kind of stuff. So it's all linked. But yeah, there's been a lot of cases and not as many deaths as people seem to make out. I mean, the newspapers love to be like ‘there's been 2000 deaths in the last two months’, but there's also been 97% more cases, which is horrible. And that's not to say that all those deaths were a joking matte. It is so tragic that people, you know, had to die for us to realise, you know, what this virus is about because obviously we don't really know that much about this virus. We're still doing investigations into how it does, what it does and all that kind of stuff. But it's important not to panic. Because there's proof that this virus isn't sweeping across the globe and enticing and catching everyone that it meets.

Esmé It isn't the next great plague.

Kim No, it is not. No, it isn't. Although the plague is increasing. [Nervous laugh] The cases in plague are increasing everybody, so keep your kids away from ticks and rats. I think we can talk about it if you like, another time.

Esmé Yeah, I hmm,

Kim but yeah, so the main thing is, check where your facts are coming from check where your information is coming from. Don't rely on newspapers go to either the WHO website: the World Health Organisation website or the CDC website: Centre for Disease Control and Prevention website. They do daily reports during outbreaks. They also do summaries, I put a link to a video called I think it's called the overview of novel coronavirus 2019. So that's in the show notes and all that kind of stuff. So have a look if you're interested in learning more, because I would recommend it just to be more informed. It's always good to be informed. So there was a severe peak in the number of cases. I think it was a week ago. But there were no new cases. Why is that? Do you know why, can you guess?

Esmé So I haven't come across anything about this. So I'm just guessing.

Kim Please do.

Esmé There are no new cases presumably that then unless the, okay, either the virus itself is kind of dying out or, we have successfully quarantined, you know, everybody with the virus or anyone who could potentially spread it to other people and you know, we've sort of closed the channels where it could be spread.

Kim Right.

Esmé So presumably the measures that have been taken in terms of, you know, things being done at airports to make sure people aren't, you know, entering a country with with a virus presumably that’s all working.

Kim That is true, that is all working, but that doesn't explain an increase in incidence. So there's been an increase in, there was a sharp, significant peak in the number of incidences of coronavirus, but there were no new infections. And this is kind of a tricky question because I didn't fully understand this when I read it.

Esmé Is it? Is it there are more people coming forward to say I think I have the virus as opposed to because the more that we know about it. And the sort of the further the information travels, the more likely somebody is to realise that they haven't just got the flu, that it might be different virus and then they come forward, but it isn't a new, a new case. They've had it for a while if that makes sense.

Kim Yeah.

Esmé Could it be how it is reported?

Kim It is about how it's reported. And it's not new people coming forward. Although there are lots of people who are like, ‘Oh, I think I might have it so I should probably say something.’ It's actually the definition of the virus of Covid-19 was redefined in the middle of an outbreak. They were like, Hmm, I think this is a new symptom and we should probably count all the cases that have that too.

Esmé Hmm. Okay

Kim because interestingly, the virus itself Covid 19 is or can exhibit asymptomatic cases. Do you know what asymptomatic cases are?

Esmé cases where people don't show symptoms?

Kim Yeah, basically. But yeah, so asymptomatic cases are having to be characterised by lab tests. And originally, those lab tests were only done by the WHO, or the CDC, right, but now, I think they're kind of, because people are understanding the virus a bit more. Those lab tests can be done more locally, not every lab can test because obviously it's a biological pathogen. It's incredibly dangerous. A biohazard. But it's definitely people are more able to characterise what's going on. So you can use various different techniques which, which you can look up, I don't necessarily want to go into all of them, but they can use blood and they'll use multiple blood specimens and they will test them for the virus. And so you might not show symptoms, but you might have it in your blood. And you might have it in your body, but you're not, you know, you're not showing symptoms, because like I said, your symptoms are how you react to the virus and some people won't react at all, and some people will react really badly and some people will just kind of be in the middle. So,

Esmé Is it still a danger to you if you're not showing symptoms?

Kim Yes, so well, potentially, because it could develop into something with symptoms and then you might not be prepared, you might have been cleared and you'd be like, ‘Oh, I can leave the country now’ and then you leave the country and you become really, really sick. Secondary to that as well is that you can transmit it to other people. You can, you can pass it on even when you're asymptomatic, so that's also super dangerous. But they will take multiple blood and potentially sputum samples so like phlegm basically

Esmé Gross.

Kim Yep. And they'll be tested using PCR or immunoassays, that kind of thing to understand whether you have the virus and then for people with pneumonia, they'll also X ray your chest to look at your lungs and see if there's any characteristics that have been observed in patients previous to you, you know, compare your results to people that are known to have coronavirus. This is sort of a crushed glass looking X ray. So your lungs look like they're filled with granules almost and then there's, also you can also have like, nodules. So nodules in your lungs but these can all be seen by X ray so, you don't have to have anything invasive done and these are usually people in a very severe category with very severe pneumonia. There's a paper that I linked in the show notes that talks about some of those characteristics. Okay, so that's all about the virus and how they're diagnosing it and how they're tracking it. So another question: What is a public health emergency of international concern? I know we've talked about this a little bit. So what do you remember?

Esmé That it wasn't as bad as it sounded? Because international was it international emergency,

Kim Public health emergency

Esmé public health emergency of international it had the word international in there

Kim International concern

Esmé That was the one international concern. Sounds very scary. And yeah, public health emergency. Sounds like everybody panic kind of talk.

Kim DANGER!

Esmé Exactly. But when we discussed this previously, you said this is not that.

Kim No, it isn't that I'm going to read you a nice little quote here. It says that ‘a public health emergency of international concern is characterised as an extraordinary event, which is determined to constitute a public health risk to other states through the international spread of disease and to potentially require coordinated international response.’

Esmé So that still sounds serious, but it is not necessarily death.

Kim Right, exactly. Definitely not death it just means that this disease is crossing borders, right? People are travelling and it's causing people to, you know, take that disease with them.

Esmé Right. Some people crossing board like a disease crossing borders and people crossing borders with a disease is inherently bad even if the disease isn't like it doesn't have to be a fatal disease, -

Kim Right

Esmé - for that to be a problem because people living in different places will have tolerances to different diseases. Right?

Kim Exactly. So things like malaria is restricted to a certain area.

Esmé Yeah.

Kim Or, you know, it's only going to become more of a concern when it spreads to places that haven't seen it before. So coronavirus for people who I don't know if our generation particularly knows about SARS, and MERS, but for previous generation SARS and MERS were also in the same category so they're both also coronavirus. But they saw huge uptake of cases in must have in South Asia and the Middle East as well. So they were like outbreaks that happened in those areas and they kind of stayed contained to those areas, but they were really, really severe.

Esmé Right,

Kim It caused a lot of panic then because people didn't, hadn't seen it before. There's no cure. And again, there's no cure for SARS or MERS either. But the Covid-19, this one that we're seeing now, is probably one of the most, I don't want to say the word aggressive because that's, it's the wrong connotation but it's the most, it's spread the most it's the most prevalent across the world now compared to SARS and MERS which is interesting, because obviously, our healthcare is better. You know, we're better at diagnosing things, we're better at identifying things. So why is this outbreak, it's kind of concerning because, you know, if we're at our peak game and we're doing the best that we can and we're still getting beaten'; It kind of asks interesting questions regarding our capability of tracking disease and tracking outbreaks and things like that. So, this is a call to anyone out there who's interested, get to it, start doing your research, because there is definitely a need for more information on this kind of stuff. In terms of like, you know, how diseases spread and how we come up with vaccines and, and all that kind of stuff. We need more information on all kinds of emerging diseases, emerging being diseases that reach a new level of prevalence. So the WHO declared this public health emergency of international concern because coronavirus has been crossing borders, it's been travelling outside of where it was originally, it was originally in Wuhan China. And now it's in what did I say? 29 different countries. So that's why it's an international concern, because it's spread internationally. It's, I don't know if they would consider it a pandemic, I think they would, just because a pandemic is described as global cases of a high prevalence, and they've made well, the cases aren't a high prevalence in the rest of the world just in China. So maybe they wouldn't consider it a pandemic. What do you think about that?

Esmé About whether it's a pandemic or epidemic or?

Kim Yeah

Esmé See, my understanding of those two terms comes from a very vague memory of GCSE biology.

Kim Shout out Mr. Smith. Yeah. What a hero.

Esmé So if I remember right, then epidemic is within a country.

Kim Yeah, yes.

Esmé And a pandemic is I had remembered it is just being across country. They are saying it's more about being global?

Kim Well, I guess you could say it was cross countries. But I think it's more to do with the number of cases. I think it has to be a high number of cases. But then, you know, how do you define a high number of cases like 10,000 People? 2000 people?

Esmé Yeah, because it's something like just the common cold. I think that's the kind of thing that would get, you can get that pretty much anywhere. We wouldn't call this pandemic because it's too mild or because there's not enough people like I don't, I don't know, we don't think of it as being a pandemic, just because it's in more than one country. And I use the word pandemic. I mean, the word epidemic is like, a bit sort of, Oh, god, no, it's an epidemic. Pandemic is going to cause even more sort of people freaking out. So having a very limited definition of that might help that being able to say yes, it is a disease that has crossed borders, but it isn't. It isn't a pandemic levels, you know, right.

Kim Yeah. I think Yeah, you've got to be careful. Like I said, you gotta be careful with the words that you choose that the connotations that those words have.

Esmé Yeah, you want to be really, really sure before you describe something into extreme terms.

Kim Yeah, exactly. And then also, you know, it's all contextual. So, you know, like I said, the word aggressive, like, in this case, aggressive, is that it's, you know, spreading quickly and with, you know, a direct impact. It doesn't mean that it's really angry and tearing things apart and destroying everything and, you know, so it's definitely contextual. But then yeah, having saying it's a pandemic might make it worse. Well, it might make people being worried about it increase. But yeah, so the public health emergency of international concern just means that they convene committees, cross country committees to discuss the impact of the virus and, and how they can help people. So one of the important things and one of the things I get really interested in is the fact that developing countries countries that have a lower you know, income overall don't have access to healthcare infrastructure, or their infrastructure maybe isn't as widespread as it needs to be or people don't know what infrastructure is available, or the funding just isn't there to support nurses and doctors who work there. So one of the things that, like I said I get really interested in is how organisations like the WHO and the CDC, how they distribute their resources and how they distribute - including people how they distribute all the the various components to countries that need it the most. So, if we get an outbreak of coronavirus, a localised outbreak in the UK guaranteed there'll be a hospital that can shut down and house these people and everything will be contained, for the most part. But if there's an outbreak somewhere that doesn't have the same infrastructure we do, you know that that's going to prolong the outbreak, that's going to make the outbreak potentially worse, because they don't have the treatment and support that they need. So by convening this emergency committee, they are deciding how they're going to allocate resources to people that need it. Obviously, there's the money aspect. But then there's also you know, we have this many doctors, where can they go that they're going to be most effective? Because obviously, it's of international concern? It's relevant to the entire world. We want to make sure that nobody has this virus at the end of the day, right. So -

Esmé We'll all work together.

Kim Exactly. So, you know, I laugh at the fact that it's just, you know, convening a committee. But in actual fact, it's really important because it's getting people to communicate their needs and allocate the resources to those people that need it. It's an important bit of action, I'd say. Did you want to ask a question? Do you have another question? Before we do the end notes?

Esmé Not really about what you were just saying? I was thinking about as you were talking more generally.

Kim Yeah.

Esmé Which is something that I overheard somebody saying. So I've, there's been plenty of sort of unfortunate racism.

Kim Yes.

Esmé Sort of, you know, Chinese students and universities, just Asian people in general being viewed with suspicion. And we sort of know that that's a bit silly

Kim If you're, yeah, if you're sensible and educated, one would assume that you wouldn't be as, is xenophobic the right word?

Esmé Yeah, I think so. Like, you know, if, regardless, regardless of race in, if you're in the UK and you've got Coronavirus you have, you are probably in quarantine.

Kim Yes.

Esmé Highly unlikely that some random person who happened to sneeze on the bus has actually got a Coronavirus. Right. And, again, regardless of where they're from, but something I overheard that I did stop to think about, because I have absolutely no idea whether or not it's a valid concern is goods imported from, for example, China. So obviously, not the whole of China, but that, you know, the place where the outbreak started.

Kim Yeah

Esmé Because you said that the virus can survive on, you know, outside of a host for was it seven weeks?

Kim Yeah, yeah. Up to potentially seven weeks. Yeah.

Esmé So is it possible for manufactured goods or food imported from China to infect people over here?

Kim Okay, that's a good question. And there's actually a lot of things to unpack with that concept. So, the seven week period in which you can still get infected by it's called a fomite say something, an object or you know, like clothes or bed sheets or a desk like how that is contaminated. That fomite can spread the virus so there's lots of factors, so seven weeks is the ideal you know, factors, it's kind of warm and humid and it's, you know, not being touched or swept, or, you know, bleached or anything like that. So, that's the first part seven weeks is the ultimate optimum for this virus to live on the surface,

Esmé okay

Kim So it's going to be a lot less than that, because like I said, viruses are very sensitive, we should feel sorry for them because they are so sensitive, and so precious. And they will survive on many surfaces, but it's unlikely that they're going to survive on cardboard boxes being transported, they won't survive, if they go outside. Like I think it was something like three weeks it can survive outside, but I can't really remember the specific conditions for that. So if it's being transported from place to place, it's very unlikely that it's going to be warm enough or hospitable enough for that virus to survive on that surface first of all

Esmé right.

Kim And obviously, plane holds get very cold, boat holds get very cold, all the ways that you would transport manufactured goods gets pretty gruesome the weather gets pretty gruesome, right? So it's very, very, very unlikely that, that the, you know, the manufactured goods will be fomites that they will transmit the virus. Secondly, to that, and I think something that also ties into the, I don't know if it ties into the xenophobia, but it's definitely an aspect of this. But rhetorical question. Do you think that people in China are going to cough onto a box and be like, ‘yeah, that's fine. I'm just gonna send it’ like, No they're just as concerned as we are! You know, this isn't a conspiracy to infect the rest of the world. This is you know, people in China are getting sick and they're dying and they're just as impacted as we are.

Esmé Yeah.

Kim So although spraying things with alcohol, with bleach don't always necessarily have, you know, a great impact. They're not like going to save your life. There's actually a page on the CDC website. I think it's the CDC, the CDC website that talks about myths surrounding coronavirus and I'll link that as well. And it was like you know, ‘Does spraying my surfaces with alcohol every time I touched things gonna stop me from getting coronavirus?’ No. But that doesn't mean that people don't do it and it doesn't reduce a level of risk.

Esmé Right? K

im Um, you know, practising safe hygiene, washing your hands, coughing into hankies or tissues, just being you know, non germ spreading human beings

Esmé Basic stuff you learned in school.

Kim Right, exactly. Referencing before kids are gross. Stay away from them

Esmé Yep.

Kim But to I guess, and I know it's not you saying this, but I guess to to think that people in China are going to be like, yeah, we're just going to send out these packages, and it's gonna be fine. Like, you know, if there's if there's an infection there, we're just going to spread it. And I know that's not like the inherent initial thought. But to think that they're not going to take precautions for the stuff that they're sending.

Esmé Yeah, it's a mixture of sort of prejudice and ignorance and people being paranoid because of the fear mongering.

Kim Exactly.

Esmé You know, that's how you, that's how you sell newspapers is making people freak out a little bit. And that leads to, you know, things like racism, xenophobia, in places where people are scared.

Kim Exactly. So, yes, it is something that to think about, but also, it's something to sort of contest in your own head and say, actually, you know, I'm concerned about coronavirus, so you know why wouldn't people in China be concerned about coronavirus? I'm concerned about spreading it through commercial goods. It's not, you know, the thought has occurred so why hadn't the thought occurred to people in China?

Esmé Exactly. If you were significantly ill like if you thought you had Coronavirus or, you know any easily transmissible illness, you probably wouldn't be going into work. So again, Why would they?

Kim Exactly, exactly. So it all just comes down to remembering that we're all kind of the same. You know, if we're sick, and we don't want to go to work, and yeah, like you said, people in China don't want to go to work. Nobody wants to go to work. And that's not to say that there isn't, you know, a real level of risk. But you can see that the same level of risk is from any other country that could have workers that have coronavirus.

Esmé Yeah. And someone in the UK hypothetically could have coronavirus and yeah, not know about it. And you know,

Kim yeah and spread it around. Yeah, exactly. So basically, you should be suspicious of every person, you shouldn't be suspicious, not just people from China or, you know, whatever you think a person from China looks like, again, racism, every person in Asia could be Chinese. ridiculous. But, you know, yeah, there are people that and I mean, I've seen it, you know, we have a large Chinese population here on campus and, you know, there are people that are concerned about it, and, you know, be concerned, but also be informed.

Esmé Yeah

Kim Right. Cuz being concerned and not doing your research means that you can make things more dangerous or more scary, you know. So, closing comments from me involve the following. Be careful, but be smart. Something to live by perhaps. Practice good hygiene. Please everybody, even if you just get a cold, I don't like getting sick and I don't like getting sick as a result someone coughing on me. So everyone needs to practice good hygiene. Limit international travel if you can, but that's more of a you know, people are panicking when they're travelling. So, you know, if you're going to be panicking while you're travelling, don't travel.

Esmé Yeah.

Kim I mean, I was in Iceland, was it two weeks ago, three weeks ago, and I didn't get coronavirus, guys so you know, it's okay to travel but just be sensible. And, most importantly, don't go to the hospital. As soon as you think that you're sick, call 111 if you're sick call 111 non emergency line. Obviously if you're having an emergency call 999, please but if you've got some symptoms that you think could be coronavirus, something of concern Call 111 or whatever your non emergency health line is. That's for the UK is 111, get advice. And if they think that you are at risk, they will send you an ambulance, okay? They will send you to a hospital that can accommodate you. Instead of you waiting in a waiting room, getting other people sick, they'll send you to a hospital that can accommodate you, quarantine you. Quarantine is not a scary word, it just means you get to lay in bed for two weeks, and be observed and they will you know, they'll make sure that you get the care that you need. So don't panic, think. Use your brains, everybody. You know what you're doing. There's information out there. So don't be scared. Just be informed. And I know it's hard. I know. It's silly to say don't be scared. Because if you're scared, you're scared. But having the information and the information is there and I've linked a lot of information in the show notes. And I might do some more writing on it in the future, if people would like that. But yeah, send us an email or a comment. If you have more questions, just get informed. Everybody get informed. It's going to be okay. So, yeah, that's all I have to say on the subject.

Esmé Cool, cool.

Kim It's a very juicy subject at the moment very popular to talk about the moral of the stories Please be informed before you start panicking. That's all from me. Esmé, any more comments?

Esmé Don't think so.

Kim A side note for Next Episode, we are going to be discussing The Essex Serpent by what's the author's name?

Esmé Sarah Perry

Kim Sarah Perry. So if you want to join us in that discussion, well listen and also have thoughts about the story. Please feel free to read the book or read the notes version, the Wikipedia version. So at least you know what we're talking about.

Esmé Judgement free zone for Sparknotes.

Kim Yeah, do what needs to be done.

Esmé You know, I would recommend reading the book. It is very good. There is a reason we've chosen to talk about it

Kim Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I'm about halfway through, just over halfway. And I'm really enjoying it. So yeah, this isn't just a book that we're like, we're going to read it just for the sake of it. No, this is a book we recommend. And we're also going to be discussing next week. But yeah, that's all from us. Thank you so much.

Kim Thanks for listening to Sparking Connections. For references and further information find the show notes at anchor.fm/sparkingconnections or at my website, pleaseholdfor.squarespace.com where you will also find transcripts and links to find us elsewhere on the internet. If you have any questions or comments then email us at Sparkingconnectionspodcast@gmail.com or leave a comment below the episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai